Johnson, Kirstin Jeffrey. Rooted in all its Story, More is Meant than Meets the Ear: A Study of the Relational and Revelational Nature of George MacDonald’s Mythopoeic Art. 2010. University of St. Andrews, PhD. thesis.
Lapointe, Tanya, with Stefanie Broos. The Art and Soul of Dune Part Two. 2024.
Amazing post, Danielle! Okay, so I finally watched Dune 2 and could legitimately finish reading your analysis, haha. I'm still processing so much of the movie, as well as your essay (I feel like I need to go back and rewatch the first movie because there are several aspects of the religion and politics I'm not sure I'm understanding correctly). But I loved your essay, and how thoroughly you laid out the "myth become fact" in your analysis. This put a name and a framework to something similar I was thinking/noticing while watching; the characters speak of the prophecy as EITHER myth (interpreted as naievety or religious manipulation) OR fact, but it's not an either/or. It is obviously larger than any one person's interpretation of it or reasons for spreading it and is unfolding whether they want it to or not.
I really loved this part, among others: "Mythopoesis being not just story-making, a literary discipline, but where the abstract and the literal abide together. It is the liminal space where God comes down to commune with Man. It is only us moderns who struggle with this notion of the Divine communing with the Human. We separate Myth and History and view them as opposing and conflicting concepts. The ancients would not have struggled with this understanding or even made these distinctions." Yes! This is also exactly echoes what I've been reading in Saving the Appearances by Owen Barfield. It is modern consciousness that makes a divide between the literal, historical, or material world and the world of meaning.
You know I haven't read the books, but I think I can tell where Frank Herbert meant to write "a hero believing in his own hype" turning into a Greek tragedy. But that seems to be both where the story breaks down, as a critique of the Hero's Journey, and where Villeneuve sees another opportunity. Because a Greek tragedy deals in inescapable forces that go beyond human intentions. So using a modern socio-political critique of religion within a mythic framework just undermines the whole critique, right? I'll continue pondering. This gave me a lot to think about and was so well put together!
EXACTLY. Haha! Thank you! ^_^ It is really difficult to get people to understand that aspect! Particularly those who love Herbert’s Dune novels, and think it is a brilliant critique of religion/hero worship. But that is exactly the problem! It all breaks down because he is using the patterns of myth-making to build his world and story, which makes his thematic through-line nearly incoherent. I don’t know if you knew this, but J.R.R. Tolkien was known for his dislike and critique of Dune, and that makes total sense considering Herbert is essentially the antithesis of Tolkien’s mythopoeic viewpoint.
But thank you so much, Jenny, for your thoughtful response and for reading my review! :D I appreciate it! Eeee! I am so excited that you watched the movie! Haha. Yeah, it is kind of a lot. It really bowls you over with its grandeur, color, and sound. I’m glad you brought up Bartfield’s Saving the Appearances, as that is a book I need to read asap! I was trying to remember the title and was going to ask you about it. But yeah, clearly in the movies the myth is larger than the players in the drama unfolding. It is so obvious to me too that it isn’t an either/or, but something more ambiguous. Even the Bene Gesserit, who are pulling most of the strings, are beholden to the Myth unfolding!
Works Cited:
Johnson, Kirstin Jeffrey. Rooted in all its Story, More is Meant than Meets the Ear: A Study of the Relational and Revelational Nature of George MacDonald’s Mythopoeic Art. 2010. University of St. Andrews, PhD. thesis.
Lapointe, Tanya, with Stefanie Broos. The Art and Soul of Dune Part Two. 2024.
Lewis, C.S. God in the Dock. 1970.
Metsys, Quentin. Christ as the Man of Sorrows. (Netherlandish, 1465 or 1466 - 1530). Getty.edu. https://www.getty.edu/art/collection/object/109P8R
Tolkien, J.R.R. Mythopoeia. https://www.tolkien.ro/text/JRR%20Tolkien%20-%20Mythopoeia.pdf Accessed June 15, 2024.
I would pass all day long on reading those articles 💯
Amazing post, Danielle! Okay, so I finally watched Dune 2 and could legitimately finish reading your analysis, haha. I'm still processing so much of the movie, as well as your essay (I feel like I need to go back and rewatch the first movie because there are several aspects of the religion and politics I'm not sure I'm understanding correctly). But I loved your essay, and how thoroughly you laid out the "myth become fact" in your analysis. This put a name and a framework to something similar I was thinking/noticing while watching; the characters speak of the prophecy as EITHER myth (interpreted as naievety or religious manipulation) OR fact, but it's not an either/or. It is obviously larger than any one person's interpretation of it or reasons for spreading it and is unfolding whether they want it to or not.
I really loved this part, among others: "Mythopoesis being not just story-making, a literary discipline, but where the abstract and the literal abide together. It is the liminal space where God comes down to commune with Man. It is only us moderns who struggle with this notion of the Divine communing with the Human. We separate Myth and History and view them as opposing and conflicting concepts. The ancients would not have struggled with this understanding or even made these distinctions." Yes! This is also exactly echoes what I've been reading in Saving the Appearances by Owen Barfield. It is modern consciousness that makes a divide between the literal, historical, or material world and the world of meaning.
You know I haven't read the books, but I think I can tell where Frank Herbert meant to write "a hero believing in his own hype" turning into a Greek tragedy. But that seems to be both where the story breaks down, as a critique of the Hero's Journey, and where Villeneuve sees another opportunity. Because a Greek tragedy deals in inescapable forces that go beyond human intentions. So using a modern socio-political critique of religion within a mythic framework just undermines the whole critique, right? I'll continue pondering. This gave me a lot to think about and was so well put together!
EXACTLY. Haha! Thank you! ^_^ It is really difficult to get people to understand that aspect! Particularly those who love Herbert’s Dune novels, and think it is a brilliant critique of religion/hero worship. But that is exactly the problem! It all breaks down because he is using the patterns of myth-making to build his world and story, which makes his thematic through-line nearly incoherent. I don’t know if you knew this, but J.R.R. Tolkien was known for his dislike and critique of Dune, and that makes total sense considering Herbert is essentially the antithesis of Tolkien’s mythopoeic viewpoint.
But thank you so much, Jenny, for your thoughtful response and for reading my review! :D I appreciate it! Eeee! I am so excited that you watched the movie! Haha. Yeah, it is kind of a lot. It really bowls you over with its grandeur, color, and sound. I’m glad you brought up Bartfield’s Saving the Appearances, as that is a book I need to read asap! I was trying to remember the title and was going to ask you about it. But yeah, clearly in the movies the myth is larger than the players in the drama unfolding. It is so obvious to me too that it isn’t an either/or, but something more ambiguous. Even the Bene Gesserit, who are pulling most of the strings, are beholden to the Myth unfolding!